American Deadbeat Dads.......

I have a good friend here, with two kids from American fathers. She has gotten NO support and needs to track them down and have them step up to the plate. We went to the embassy Wednesday, and though they were very sympathetic, they were unable to offer much help in tracking these losers down. For now all she wants is help supporting the kids, maybe later to get them thier citizenship. But also on the citizen application (report of American birth) it says it is necessary for the the American parent to agree this is in fact his child. Not likely to happen, one of these clowns is married in the states, she found out after the fact. Any suggestions?

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YOU are the game ...

YOU, Tugboat Tom, may serve to tow that 'ship' (as in relation-ship) into a secure harbor. You are already 'involved' with the woman.

As an exercise, purely theoretical mind you, don't believe a word she says. Forget about her past. Then consider: what you see is what you could get, should you decide to continue to 'help'.

And it may be the greatest blessing of your life, an instant, little loving family to call your own. Go forward & enjoy. Go backward into "her past" at your peril. You may even get lucky, like Juanno, and snatch the golden ring while aboard this Nicaraguan merry-go-round.

Classic

Gringo in the woodpile.

It is likely

That she has long given up on trying to get the Dads to pay anything. It is more likely that she is trying to get you so involved that you feel obliged to provide support.

dollar signs in their eyes

The woman has the option of giving up the 2 children for adoption if she can't afford to support them. That's what the alleged fathers did when they walked away, same as saying "YOU adopt them."

The blame. Game

Unwanted pregnancies. Mistakes. Who's to blame? How old is the mother? What about the fathers. What were they thinking? Presumably better educated to know you don't have unprotected sex to prevent minimum a STD or an unwanted pregnancy at worst. Is it a mistake doing something you know you shouldn't or acting careless? We all have had our share of "mistakes" , but in this case I would say that at least one of the party acted irresponsibly. She could've kept her legs shut but she didn't, she could've asked the guys to wear a comdom and maybe she did but we all know how sometimes boys will be boys. We can at times be very stupid. Maybe alcohol or drugs were involved. Some would say she could've learned her lessonthe first time . So once is a mistake but twice is a habit? Not enough details to label the fathers as deabeats and the mother as a fool or something more harsh. A funny thing though it seems that for some the girls are the ones that should know better than to open their legs and risk getting pregnant for allowing boys to be boys. Men acting like boys do know better and boys acting like men in this day and age should know better. Adam knew best yet he blamed Eve and she blamed the Serpent. But who in his right mind puts a snake in a garden? Damn screwed from the start. It is all hogwash. The constant quest to find someone to blame for our deeds the ones we could and should've walked away from is one of the main reasons we are in such a mess . One decides to lead while another decides to follow in the end it is as they say It Takes Two To Tango. Adios muchachos companeros de mi vida.... Carlo Gardel tango extraordinaire.

Services

There are services, such as U.S. Federal Parent Locator Service and agencies for such things HHS's Office of Child Support Enforcement, but for international claims most seem limited to reciprocating countries, and Nicaragua is not one of them (El Salvador is the only C.A. country onboard). If the U.S. parent is in the military, then that might change things, though even this seems tied to reciprocation agreements (but military wages are withheld per child support; also, based on recent changes, anyone, military or otherwise, who is more than $2500/5000 behind on child support cannot receive nor renew a U.S. passport, etc) , International Dear Colleague Letter to Foreign Reciprocating Countries. Though it likely doesn't help, the actual process can be seen via the El Salvador manual, here. Apparently, one is entitled to certain services, regardless of locale; see the "question / answer" entry near the top of this file, under RE: Direct Application for Title IV-D Services from International Residents. Without reciprocity, the services would be "guaranteed" via the 2007 Convention on the International Recovery of Child Support and Other Forms of Family Maintenance Hague Agreement, but it has not been fully signed, and Nicaragua appears nor on board with it anyway (some sources list U.S. and Norway as the only ones who signed it). Every State appears obligated to work with a petitioner regardless of that person's locale or citizenship, but if you do not know the parent's location, or do not have the funds to pursue it legally, then it might not matter much.

her situation......

She was in a relationship with both, as in i love you and be together forever type..... the gringo gave her$300 for an abortion, she refused and got beat in the ensuing argument. the korean, also an american said he couldnt help her and the kid wasnt his anyway. i know, so she says...... but the fact that BOTH knew they had fathered a child and couldnt care less leaving the country to me means they are total deadbeats. completely worthless.. i paid my support for more than 12 years, and worked two jobs to do it. it is a moral, AND a legal obligation. i dont believe this was planned on her part as a way of cashing in on support. she hasnt tried in 5 years to collect it before nor has she attempted to gain entrance into the states. this forum has changed alot in thwe last few years. rudeness comes easier for some, i guess. what would your reaction be if someone made those same comments about your daughter in the same situation? MJT, I thank you for your advice and will follow up. hopefully this might get these guys, and thier kids the justice they all deserve.

It is all too easy to lay the blame as well as the babies at the

woman's feet.

The men have the same responsibility as the woman. She is living up to hers by bringing up the children. The men decided to move on.

The questions is: "Would the woman try to pursue getting money if the fathers were working class Nicaraguans?"

Complicated . . .

but it sounds like both were here long enough to get to know her and become aware that she was pregnant.  A minimum of six weeks or so.   Not your usual tourist .  . It would seem that she would know enough about the fathers to at least make contact.  If she knows where they grew up (and went to high school)  for example.I can imagine that I might react out-of-character when confronted with a similar situation in a strange country. 

Knowing what I know about Nicaragua,  I would also be wary . .  . I suspect that most of the cynicism on this blog is directed more at Nicaraguan  "honesty"  in general than at the mother in question.  I would even question a paternity test done in Nicaragua;  I would probably want to go to Costa Rica for the test to avoid the possibility of a bribe determining the result.In the US 30% of tested paternities are not confirmed.  Of course, this number reflects situations where people have doubts to begin with,  not a normal cross section of parents and children.Of course if she were in the US it wouldn't matter if the men were actually the fathers or not >>   :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Rcp3wAEI8&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X4Rcp3wAEI8&feature=related

This woman has her work cut out for her:  Find the fathers, ask them to consent to a paternity test.  If the paternity is confirmed, then ask them to agree to provide regular support.  Calling them deadbeats is not going to help. I don't see any way the support can be compelled.

Her chances are about as good as me driving from Estelí to Managua without being waved over at one of the traffic checkpoints.   I hope she does give the "dads" the chance to  make things right.  A lot of work, but if it pays off  it could make a huge difference for the kids. 

Well put

by the Pirate. I think we are all suffering from not quite enough knowledge. This make the answers less than as useful as they can be. To me the biggest "logistical" hurdle (question) is are they now in NICA or in the USA. If the latter, the difficulty is compounded by several orders of magnitude and more like driving fro Estilli to the Mexican border and not getting stopped.ZZT

from what i have seen..

most nicas dont pay child support..so...

Even if

Even if the two men in question lived right down the street from the Embassy in Managua and were registered with the Embassy, or even if they actually worked inside that Embassy, Consul staff would not assist you. The Privacy Act of 1974 (5 U.S.C. § 552a) is a shield to them providing much of any information on a U.S. citizen regardless of where he is. Did the mother of the children go into the U.S. Embassy with you (if so, how did she gain entrance)?

Mifamilia

The Crime Lab was (earlier this year anyway) offering free DNA testing to Nicaraguan mothers in relation to child support cases. She is going to be asked for it at some point so if she can get a test done on the children now, while its free, may as well do it.

She can contact her nearest Mi Familia office: http://www.mifamilia.gob.ni/ and maybe find some support groups that are doing the same thing. ( No sense re inventing the wheel or wasting time and money).

There are countless "dead beat dad" sites if you search those three words. Keep her focussed though, a lot of those type of sites are full of chat and no action.

And Savantis; (Sure that's not code for Seventh Day Adventist?), the guy was not asking for tips on avoiding pregnancy or seeking help with a lecture.

I am giving him the benefit of the doubt that he is doing a nice thing for a Nica woman that made an error(s).

Besides, you have no idea of under what circumstances these babies were made.

As insensitive as Savantis's

As insensitive as Savantis's comment was, a good level of skepticism is deserved her. Once is a mistake, but twice?

Her money

is not the issue in NICA but in States. Has to find him and then take action. That si where the "prevention" advice is valid, even though said a bit directly. I am not sure what you mean by "you do not know under what circumstances these children were made". Duhhh...I think we do.ZZT

Tell her...

to get some birth control to avoid having the third, and assume the responsibility for not having thought of this before she opened her legs to two traveling gringos. WTF was she thinking??

Pregnancy is the least of their worries...

There is a lack of reproductive and sexual health education in Nicaragua. Nowadays we should be more surprised at two (presumably more educated) gringos having unprotected sex. Pregnancy is the least of their worries.

USAID believes the HIV/AIDS rates were lower in Nicaragua than most CA countries due to the civil war but now it is catching up, quickly.

And here, http://my.tbaytel.net/bethcrc/Vanderwees-Jul2010.pdf, I'll quote...

Four years ago, there was one new case of HIV a week in Nicaragua; in 2010 the frequency has increased to two a day.

First,

she needs to prove paternity. She cannot just point to a guy and say "that is him". Actually, she first needs to find them. That could take a lot of resources (money). Each state has their own procedures for bringing a paternity action. She will likely need a lawyer(more money) to handle this for her in the states...or some other advocate. This ain't easy money for her, and real tough to do. I know this is nothing specific on how to do it, but knowing the road it will take and the inherent problems doing it may say that it is not a real option and .......well, just be more thoughtful up front next time.ZZT

I knew I should have skipped it in the first place.

I remember getting crap from one of you guys for simply talking about how I may not need a fridge when the question was about where to buy a fridge. She was not the question, so, I still don't get the critique of the girl, but none of you is all over the two gringos?

You guys have the freedom to make whatever comments you like. The girl doesn't always have the freedom to "shut her legs". (Seeing as our friend penned that quote "She opened her legs to two traveling gringos".) Where did you deduce that from in the question.?

And as far as my comment "you do not know under what circumstances these children were made" (to which I got a "Duhhh...I think we do") I meant this: Between sober loving consensual sex, all the way up to a violent rape, there are a thousand or more descriptions of what led up to the act that all could result in a pregnancy. It could be as simple as "Of course I love you", to "Of course you can live with me in California" or a very persuasive male with a fancy title and a few stories to tell an impressionable 18 year old.

My wife Maria has two kids by two different fathers. Never lived with them, never married them, never got any child support from one and the other is subject of a "faint hope" court proceeding because he was a Sandinista Deputado and still has enough power to stop the file in its tracks (and me if he wants to).

So Mr. Dawson, answer your own question, what is "twice" if the first was a mistake? Would it move to being a crime?

I live with the "two mistakes" and the mother who made them. Some of the best mistakes I have ever seen.

All I said was that some

All I said was that some skepticism is warranted. They were referred to as deadbeat dads, but it's just as likely they don't even know about the kids. Does she even know their correct names? Give her the benefit of a doubt and treat it like it's real, but keep your eyes open when you do it. Like you said, we don't know the circumstances.

Ever hear the saying "Fool me once, shame on you, but fool me twice, shame on me"? I'll let you (or anyone who wants to) finish the sentence: Once is a mistake, twice is ________________________.

Why the big need to ram the point home Charlie?

You start with an 'All I said was"...like a steady on there old chap and then you finish by wanting to ram it home again.

How about "twice is; another mistake".

And Mike.....I have no answer for you that you would either understand or enjoy reading.

I Agree

that the Dads should at least have the opportunity to know about their children before being tarred as deadbeats. With the small amount of money that the woman needs in Nicaragua to help her raise the children, the fathers might willingly pony up, -if they knew. They might even want to know about their children and take an interest in their future. I know I would.

So, does she at least have enough information to find the fathers? Name and city, approximate age would be a good start. What were they doing in Nicaragua?

There are any number of inexpensive internet search engines that sell this information.

Mother nature isn't fair

Women are mothers and men are sperm donors. Humans keep trying to change this for various reasons, but the success rate is pretty low.

If I can paraphrase the old tune "Mommas, don't let your babies grow up to be cowboys", it would be something like "Mommas, don't let your daughters grow up to sleep with people as foolish as they are".

¨Independence is the only benefit we have gained, at the expense of all else¨ -Simon Bolivar