O Canada...

Canada breaks diplomatic relations with Iran:

"The Iranian regime is providing increasing military assistance to the Assad regime; it refuses to comply with U.N. resolutions pertaining to its nuclear program; it routinely threatens the existence of Israel and engages in racist anti-Semitic rhetoric and incitement to genocide," Foreign Minister Baird said in a statement. "It is among the world's worst violators of human rights; and it shelters and materially supports terrorist groups."

Once again the Nicaraguan regime of the unconstitutional pedophile presidente is on the wrong side of history.

Saludos to Canada for showing some spine.

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If the US and the British hadn't messed with the last liberal...

...democratic regime in Iran in the 1950s, this particular mess wouldn't be happening.

I would say that the major countries of the world right now are Russia, China, and the US, and I just this week saw a Russian-donated firetruck being paraded through the streets of Jinotega along with the three other fire trucks other folks donated. While Shiites and Sunnis are not friends, there's a point where an attack on an Islamic nation, even one that's heretical, looks rather problematic to the rather large populations of people who even already have atomic weapons (Pakistan).

China needs the US as a market, but is developing other markets. Russia is going to always be Russia, and probably wouldn't mind the US bankrupting itself in another land war in Asia. It appears to be allying with Iran according to recent news sources.

The South American countries would probably prefer to sit this one out as the US tends to be toxic in their parts of the world when it runs interventions.

North Korea, who knows. All the African countries will do whatever China does, as China seems to be winning the hearts and minds of people there by not being white neo-imperialists.

Germany is opposed to a strike against Iran (recent news, also they're opposed to Iran getting nukes). France has a Sunni Muslim population who may or may not care about what happens to the Shiites. Likewise for Germany (which just outlawed circumcision of infants and has announced it won't support an Israeli attack on Iran) and Italy (which may go with whatever the Pope says, and the Pope may not believe this war is defensible, as the previous pope didn't believe the invasion of Iraq was). Spain will probably be opposed given that they withdrew their troops from Iraq following the bombing in Barcelona.

I'm not even sure Israelis support their current government -- using a war to swing a population behind what would have been a less and less popular regime is all too common. This suggests the majority of Israelis don't support an attack on Iran: http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/video/120817/raw-feed-jerusalem-resid.... Other Israeli English-language papers on line say similar things.

I'm sure the Boeing Corporation would love to have more of the taxpayers' money for yet another un-winnable war in Asia.

Germany announced it's not playing all the way. Russia will support Iran technically. Germany's position is explained here:http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/german-fm-to-netanyahu-israeli-strike-on-iran-nuclear-sites-could-fracture-international-coalition.premium-1.463804

I tell people in the US who were avidly pro-FSLN that it's much more complicated on the ground; same applies to having a war in Iran, which is surrounded by hostile bases but which has allies like Russia and China (http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/china/2012-09/09/c_131838742.htm). Germany is also a major trading partner with Iran.

Sunnis, not Shiites, have been responsible for most of the terrorist attacks on Israel and the US. When we can't tell the difference between them, we could make allies of people who would otherwise be each other's heretics (reading a Sunni book that had been annotated in pencil by a Shiite was eye-opening for me -- they really don't like each other).

This is interesting on the US deficit: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/05/20/bush-tax-cuts-debt_n_864812.htm...

Rebecca Brown

Syria Is Wild Card

too. Syria has been put on the back burner along with Iran until after the election. How long can the slaughter of the civilian population be ignored? Answer: Until the day after the election. Iran is tied in with Syria; now there's talk of Saddam's WMD finally being found in Syria.

Everyone is sick of war right now, and no one has the money to pursue one. Arabs do stick together, and certainly Muslims of whichever flavor will band together --after a fashion, but I believe the entire middle east besides Iraq is fed up with Iran. All fear a nuclear Iran, including the most important player in the region, Turkey.

Remember, Iran is not Arab, but Persian , and there is some old history here too.

Another (sad, but well known factor) is: wars vitalize economies. The US did not fully recovery from the Great Depression until WW II. Germany used defense expenditures to build their economy after the devastation of WW I

Neither Japan nor China, nor Hong Kong or Singapore

...have vital economies because of wars. Japan's last military adventures left it defeated and destitute. The UK decided that the cost of occupying countries was turning out to be greater than the economic advantages it got from holding colonies and was basically broke during the 1950s. The French lost Indochina and Algeria despite being rather brutal thugs as occupiers go.

Persia historically held most of the Near East at various times, and we defeated one leader who was determined to keep them out of Iraq. Might be more stable if they held their historical empire again. The territories they were holding by force would do more to weaken them than anything we could throw at their homeland. We basically had our asses handed to us in Iraq and Afghanistan; I'm sure we will grab the Iranians by the balls and have their teeth in our arms and legs. The only advantage of going after the Iranians is that they're not cool as far as liberals and leftists are concerned, otherwise, it would be like losing Vietnam all over again to a bunch of college students and a small army of people ready to spend as long as it took getting the US to go home.

I believe someone feeds you a lot of unconsidered statements that don't really have a firm connection with reality. I don't know if you believe them or not, but if you're not getting paid to post them, you should find a sponsor.

If I could get my most outrageous wish, it would be for everyone on the east coast of the Med to get ethnic amnesia and be stuff into Speedos and bikinis and dumped on tropical beaches with only beer to drink and only nice barbecue pork to eat.

Rebecca Brown

o canada?

to bad our gov't has already let hundreds of thousands of them to immigrate to the west coast.....what is that saying?

more like too late....

Iranian people

Having Worked with a good # of Iranian Nurses----they hate their govt!!! A few were even luck y enough to spend time in jail there!! They are great people! 1 can't judge people based on ones government!!

Sadly Looks Like

something is in the works. UK is out, Canada very soon, and the US hasn't been there for years. Embassy personnel would just be unfortunate hostages in the event of any hostilities. The US has been there with Iran before.

Hugo wants a piece of the action too:

http://in.reuters.com/article/2012/09/07/venezuela-usa-ship-idINL2E8K6FX...

I hope he doesn't suck DO in with him. US foreign policy is not known for making subtle distinctions.

It's a shame

Canada was already out when they made the announcement, catching most Canadians by surprise, and a CBC poll showed the majority are against the idea. The former Canadian ambassador to Iran was just on the radio saying now is a bad time to close down communications... so yeah, sounds like they have already decided. My guess is Israel isn't waiting for the US election.

More Bluster

Romney HAS to get Florida. And it happens to be the only state with a significant Jewish vote that is in play. Obama might be able to get there without Florida, but not Romney.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2012/09/11/13809137-us-israel-rift-ov...

The best part of all of this: It looks like Nicaragua is going to sit it out. Thank you, El Presidente, THANK YOU!

No, They Are

going to wait. A strike by Israel is considered a short-term positive for Obama, people tend to rally around their existing government in such an instance. At least that's the way it's scored. There have been some not so subtle hints that Romney's trip to Israel was all about getting Israel to wait until after the election.

Romney and Netanyahu are good friends, fellow conservatives, the religious connection. Evangelicals in the US see Israel as part of their heritage now (big shift from the "Jews Killed Jesus" attitude of 40 years ago).

Obama and Netanyahu have never got along. Obama tilts as far to the Palestinian side as he can without antagonizing the Jewish vote (which is particularly important in Florida). After November this vote won't be of any importance to him. There is a VERY strong anti-Israel, pro-Palestine faction in the Democratic party, as well as the Jewish faction. As a second term president with nothing to lose, Obama could very well permit Iran's development of a nuclear weapon.

It's understandable that Canada got out first, then made the announcement. They don't want to see a repeat of the US hostage crisis, with Canadians as the pawns this time. I lived through that and it was pretty depressing. Reagan sent a simple message to Iran immediately after his election: If the hostages were not released by the time he was sworn in, he was going to carpet bomb Tehran.

Iran is nothing if not unstable. They are beginning to shut down their oil production as they run out of space to store the oil, oil revenues are down 50% and projected to drop further. Like a cornered mad dog, they may well strike first and not wait for Israel.

In the Middle East, the

In the Middle East, the perception is the US blindly backs Israel at the expense of the Palestinians, and then it didn't help to watch the US build a huge embassy in Iraq like they're going to be occupiers too. I hope you believe the US can be pro-Palestinian AND pro-Israel at the same time because that's the only way to get real peace.

When countries in the Middle East are surveyed, that is the people and not their rulers, they are most afraid of Israel and the US, not Iran. Israel receives more US aid money than any other country, which is mostly spent on US military equipment. In response, their neighbors buy US military equipment to protect themselves.

Netanyahu is the one pushing for war and its against the advice of his own generals.

Lot Of Missed

opportunities for peace, and plenty of blame to go around.

Lots of changes too, in the Middle East over the last year.

Just in case you're not watching the news

One of American's more idiotic preachers burned another Koran and put the video of it on line and the reaction in Libya got the American Ambassador and others murdered despite attempts by the Embassy to cool things off before the attacks.

Islam was the average Arabs' psychological defense against colonialism in the day; the US playing the heavy in the region simply makes Islam more the thing to be defended against US attempts to control the region. The more the US is anti-Islam (and I was told that I provided a refuge in my classroom against the prevailing anti-Islamic bigotry in the US and I'm pretty much not pro-Islam or any religious faith), the more we look like neo-colonialists. Having a strongly Christian military doesn't help (some Jewish students at the US Air Force Academy have been harassed, not to speak of Islamic students: http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/US/story?id=513523&page=1). The Army seems better at this than the Air Force, though.

This isn't to condone the attacks or the killings, but it's fairly obvious that certain "Christian" rabble rousers do things that they know from past experience will enflame average pious followers of Islam and get people killed. As this doesn't seem to stop them, they are deliberately doing things that they know will cause American deaths (and Arab deaths).

I had a Moroccan student before the students from the Middle East and North Africa disappeared the next year. She said that yes, Moroccans wanted democracy, but they didn't want the US involved in the transition at all.

Rebecca Brown

```pious followers of Islam and get people killed``

If these are the pious followers, either you have a very low opinion of Islam or Islam is barbaric. Or both.

"You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality." Ayn Rand

Good comments from John McCain

http://ktar.com/?sid=1574819&nid=131

The scenario that KWP thought might have happened to the Ambassador wasn't so -- Libyans tried to rescue him, not drag him through the street.

Turns out the people behind the film misrepresented it to their actors and dubbed in the nastier lines, and one of the people responsible has been denounced by his Coptic Christian co-religionists in Egypt.

Nobody behind the film appeared to be Jewish or Israeli in actuality, just lied about it to cause further grief.

Rebecca Brown

I'm Patiently Waiting

for the statement of outrage from Correa - - - -- horrified that the sovereign soil of the US was invaded, and four US citizens killed. Imagine the outrage from the left if the UK HAD INDEED gone into the Ecuadorian embassy to fetch Assange, and some poor Ecuadorian broke a nail or had his foot stepped on in the process.

http://www.economist.com/topics/rafael-correa

---or a video of him dancing in the streets of Guayaquil. It doesn't matter which, it's all about the fifteen minutes. Our new Hugo . . .

I don't understand why we give these people money, trade preferences, --or anything else. I'm speaking of Ecuador now, the embassy invasions were not the work of the governments of Libya or Egypt.

Actually

The statement came from the minister of foreign affairs, Ricardo Patiño Aroc, about 8 hours ago. He condemned the attack, expressed condolences to the families, and called the US Ambassador to Ecuador to express the same. His comments wouldn't make our newspapers but they're on twitter in Spanish. https://twitter.com/RicardoPatinoEC

Good. I Retract

what I said, especially the dancing in the street. Petty and premature. I apologize to Rafael Correa (Oh, that stings)!

Even Cuba has chimed in on our side, just saw it on a Fox News streamer. Some good is coming out of this tragedy.

Two completely different situations, a protest that got a bit out of hand (and could have been better contained by the Egyptians, who had the resources to do so, but no serious harm done). Hell, there are plenty of people burning the US flag in the US. It's protected speech. Response? Give the Egyptians a billion less next year, and let them know why.

Libya, a planned attack, already in the works to commemorate 9/11, in a chaotic country. Libyan government has already apologized., Murder of the American diplomats (and some talk of dragging the ambassador through the streets, a la Somalia, not confirmed) was the work of extremists, Salafists and al Qaeda. These people need to be hunted down and killed, along with anyone who happens to be with them when the drone strikes. Purge the gene pool.

We need to distinguish between the people of Egypt and Libya, who are searching for a way to build a representative government, who deserve respect after years of oppression, and the pond scum who look only to destroy and murder.

Other Libyans have protested the terrorist acts

Libya appears to be helping the US track down the perpetrators.

The original point still holds -- not all people in the Middle East, including most Israelis, support an attack on Iran.

Mubarak had US support until he didn't. The CIA shipped at least one person to Gaddafi to torture. The US only spent serious efforts to bring Gaddafi down after considerable numbers of Libyans turned on him.

We had enormous sympathy from all the world, including most of the Arabic world, after 9/11. If the US simply goes after the perpetrators (and doesn't kill any male with pubic hair in a mile radius of the bad guys), then we can keep the good will. If we pull another Iraq, not so much.

Rebecca Brown

The point is that the US isn't beloved in North Africa

And while Iran is Persian and not Arabian, it still has more friends in the region than the US has. Turkey was closer to us until we started supporting Kurdish independence. That was not something they liked seeing their allies do as they have their own Kurdish population which tends to also take up arms against the Turks from time to time.

Met someone who lived in Venezuela until she moved to Matagalpa recently -- she says that even after Chavez dies, the social programs will continue. They're very popular and Chavez's party has a new generation coming along. Chavez was voted into office despite the hissy fits of the neo-cons in the US.

Interesting woman, refreshing after all the right wingers and war nerds here. I tend to find far left people as tedious as the usual right wingers we have here, but she wasn't too bad (I had a right wing couple with me and everyone agreed that Latin bureaucracy is crazy making to most Americans -- I am apparently the only exception to this).

Rebecca Brown

islam

"Islam was the average Arabs' psychological defense against colonialism in the day;"

In the year 700 AD?

I thought the guy who made the movie was jewish in California?

Weren't the acts on Embassy property acts of war?

No, ahistorical one --

...from the early 19th Century until after WW II. All the little European nationalities got their own countries after WW I, not the non-European people, hypocrites that the Western Powers were (thought Churchill actually tried to save the Ottoman Empire).

Pontecorvo is Italian -- and The Battle of Algiers was filmed in Algeria just after after the French were kicked out. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gillo_Pontecorvo

The TV special, Sandino, was made by a Spanish company with a Cuban actor playing Sandino.

Rebecca Brown

objection

again, non responsive.....

This might be of interest

Convicted criminal made anti-Muslim movie: http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/california-man-confirms-role-in-anti-i...

There's also some discussion that the Libyan event was planned and not really because of the movie.

The Libyans, at least some, have had an anti-terrorism rally since. Not all every Muslim was hostile.

Rebecca Brown

Again

Non responsive

I'm trying to educate you

Obviously, you're unresponsive.

Rebecca Brown

my mentors

have more money and more degrees than me..... i have a doctoral degree...

how do you outrank them...... or why should i listen to you when you won't answer my questions?

I don't answer questions posted by people who insist

...that I answer their questions. It's the sort of bad manners that need to be crushed. And it's typical troll sign.

Rebecca Brown

That's What Free

speech is all about. We don't kill someone when they say something we don't like. We protect their right to speak even when the speech is abhorrent. The anti-gay crowd disrupting military funerals is a recent example.

Compare Daniel Pearl's treatment to that of Julian Assange.

https://www.google.com/search?q=daniel%20pearl&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rl...

That's one of the big positives about Nicaragua: a free press. You may get beat up a bit, but you don't get your head sawed off.

Just don't announce that you're taking up arms against

...the government. That appears to lead to getting killed fairly fast if you actually have arms to take up here in Nicaragua. Happened to some fools in Jinotega not that long ago.

In Roanoke, the police told the Phelps crew that they couldn't protect them. The Phelps crew stayed home and didn't picket Dannie Overstreet's funeral (gay guy killed when a crazy shot up a gay bar). The Roanoke gay community was resigned to having Westboro Baptist Church descending; the Roanoke and Salem police weren't.

A bit more kicking ass or threatening to would be useful in some cases, as long as it wasn't a Federal or State law against it. The Roanoke cops wouldn't have seen anything (some folks' impression that the Roanoke and Salem police would have done some undercover work on the Phelps crew had they shown up).

Rebecca Brown

what?

what are you talking about?

And I'm a Troll

Ha!

Apparently, the average Israelis

... aren't even particularly excited by this one. http://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2012/03/why-israeli-pub... and http://972mag.com/poll-only-19-of-public-supports-unilateral-israeli-war...

The US has fundamentalist who support Israel for some very creepy reasons and see a war in that part of the world as part of their god's plan for the end of the world and the second coming of Jesus. Most sane parts of the world just don't get this side of the US.

Rebecca Brown

Call me paranoid

Call me paranoid but breaking of diplomatic ties coincides with the screening and imminent release of a new movie called Argo. The movie is about the so called Canadian Caper that got the American hostages out of Iran. This could be another strange case of life imitating art as one of the central themes of the movie is how Hollywood garnered public support against the Iranians back then in CIA backed entertainment projects. Could this be the case here? Give the public a star studded reminder of history to get them on board with a new war and a new boogey man?

Iran Will Be

a key topic of the presidential debates in October. The temptation to point to an " . . . Islamic terrorist presence next door to the Panama Canal . . " in the "formerly communist country of Nicaragua" as a failure in Obama foreign policy leadership will be real. Nicaragua is a safe and easy target, and DO does not have many friends in the US. The ONLY thing Nicaragua has going for it is the realization that an economically unstable Nicaragua would adversely affect the rest of CA. If the Hezbollah training camp does exist the CIA will have high resolution satellite pics. Obama is NOT going to defend Nicaragua: how many other countries in CA are courting Iran?

http://articles.chicagotribune.com/2012-09-07/news/sns-rt-us-syria-crisi...

Long memories: Remember, some number of the US Embassy staff that Iran took hostage were CIA. The rest were State Department. The knives are being sharpened. DO has never understood that maxim: If you sleep with pigs you wake up smelling like shit. I understand that he has a country to run, one with a lot of financial needs. Venezuela was understandable, Hugo was a comic side show to most people, but IRAN ?? Their foreign policy consists of setting off bombs and killing people. The wrong side of history -again.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,2106797,00.html

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9410027/Iran...

http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hHZbZi3RWubuAOaBlz05s...

The big guns in the US presidential haven't been unleashed yet. The Republicans have amassed an enormous amount of money, perhaps more than they are going to be able to spend. Karl Rove would love to wage a "scorched earth" contest. Obama's social entitlement mentality that was exposed in an unguarded moment --- "You Didn't Build That " and if you didn't, it's not yours, and we can take it from you) --- is anathema to most Americans. Nicaragua could easily become a casualty of this battle. Both sides will be looking for scapegoats and, after the election, distractions. If there are any votes to be garnered by hammering Nicaragua -- (and Florida again is THE key state, Romney has to win it) --you can be sure that Nicaragua will be demonized, unfairly or not.

How many high rolling tourists are going to visit a country "with an Islamic terrorist presence"? How many investors are going to be looking at Nicaragua as a place to park their money?

Or realistic

My guess is that more people in the world have a problem with Israel (or the US) having nuclear weapons than the possibility that Iran someday might. I expect the same numbers would be there for those being unhappy with US foreign policy than Iranian foreign policy.

A bit of Iranian history is in order. The following is from Wikipedia.

In 1951, after the assassination of prime minister Ali Razmara, Dr. Mohammad Mosaddegh was elected prime minister by a parliamentary vote which was then ratified by the Shah. As prime minister, Mosaddegh became enormously popular in Iran after he nationalized Iran's petroleum industry and oil reserves. In response, the British government, headed by Winston Churchill, embargoed Iranian oil and successfully enlisted the United States to join in a plot to depose the democratically elected government of Mosaddegh. In 1953 US President Dwight D. Eisenhower authorized Operation Ajax. The operation was successful, and Mosaddegh was arrested on 19 August 1953. The coup was the first time the US had openly overthrown an elected, civilian government.

Right or wrong, it certainly sets the groundwork for what has followed. Bottom line is the typical approach in US foreign policy doesn't exactly make friends.

All True, Phil

but the present day realities (as opposed to the history) can't be ignored. It's the Golden Rule: He who has the gold writes the rules. And writes the history book.

One really disturbing sign of the upcoming conflict are the US Jews going to Israel to join the Israeli army. Iran is being viewed more and more as an existential threat to Israel. The propaganda machines are fired up: "Iran is the biggest threat to world peace and mid-east stability blah, blah, blah". We've seen it all before. Outside of Russia and China, most major countries are on board. And then there's Nicaragua. A simple sanction like taking their banks out of the world banking system would mean the end to all those all important remittances. Try trading rials for cords . . .

The world has plenty of oil, and while prices will spike initially and remain high until the US Navy clears the Strait of Hormuz of the Iranian military presence, they will eventually moderate.

There are several vectors: A spike in prices ---(and if we have a shortage, the Jimmy Carter days will be evoked as another Obama failure of leadership)--- will open the argument about North American oil security. This new generation will be shocked, shocked! to line up for a couple of hours to buy gas. Talk about a slacker wake-up call. This question of oil security will be another key component of the upcoming presidential debates. We have the oil available to be NA independent, the infrastructure to enjoy the resource is not in place. So, where does that put the oil industry vs Iran?

The military establishment would love to see a conflict that they could finally " win " -whatever that means. The USS Cole still festers. We don't need boots on the ground in Iran. Everything will be accomplished by air or sea forces. Iran's response will be terrorist attacks around the world, which will further isolate them.

The Navy has a lot of new technology they are dying to test. Boeing wants to manufacture more of those (really expensive) precision guidance devices for bombs (to support the commercial end of the business until the economy picks up and they can start selling DreamLiners). Ditto for the rest of the defense establishment.

Those new X-band radars in the mid-east that can supposedly detect a missile launch within seconds have to be tested in real time.

Iran offers all of the above -and more. It's not looking good.

obama

it appears obama agrees with you!

"Maybe, just once, someone will call me 'sir' without adding, 'you're making a scene." -Homer J. Simpson